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duci
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 Posted - 04/04/2006 : 18:00:20
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Reproduc dupa:
http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/pas/pas20.htm
"
1. There is no evidence of any Latin influence on Gothic having been exerted in Dacia. On the other hand, chronological, formal, and semantic traits exclude the origin from Dacia of most of this influence. The assumption of Gothic elements in Rumanian is based on false etymologies.
"
Citez dupa Jerrold E. Hogle, "The Cambridge Companion to Gothic Fiction", Cambridge University Press 2002:
"Gothic relics could be effective for establishing an useful myth of Gothic ancestry that often proved to be as effective for class climbing as it was ultimately counterfeit. Such a use of the emtied past in ghosts of counterfeits has consequently allowed the neo-gothic to be filled with antiquated repositories into which modern quandaries can be projected and abjected simultaneously."
Sa vedem ce putem recupera.Deoarece Internetul permite mai nou accesul la tot felul de info, vad ca se poate arata ca Jordannes minte, prin comparatie cu genealogiile regilor Danemarcei, Suediei si Norvegiei.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jamesdow/s024/f172874.htm
http://scheie.homedns.org/3HistoryOppegaard.htm
http://www.damsethi.com/rep3/dat7.htm
In linii mari: dupa razboiul din 106 un baiat al lui Decebal, Godwulf (!!cred ca trebuie lupul get Getawolf) a emigrat in Danemarca si si-a facut un regat pe care l-a extins in Suedia, Anglia si Islanda. Descendenta traco-getica e clara. Deci e invers decat la Jordannes. Plus ca Jordannes-luat ca baza de colegii unguri pentru disparitia ciobanilor traco-geto-daci - zbarceste datarea cu 200 ani.
Cred ca limba "gota", biblia lui Wulfilla (care de altfel s-a convertit el insusi la paganism) si triburile est-germane sunt iluzorii. Nu au existat asa cum nu exista nici azi.
The pattern(Povestea): Gotii==traco-geto-daci, frati cu scitii, aveau o manie pentru descendenta din profeti, in cazul nostru Valah (asa cum din Man descind Ger-Manii si Ar-Menii). Urmasul lui Vlah era voievod si functiona ca patriarh+rege. Atunci cand dadea decizii, o facea verbal. Sfatul asculta rezultatul "in adoratie": in genunchi cu barbia in sus si bratele sus in semn de primire (vezi pe columna si un tablou votiv al lui Stefan cel Mare). Stampila de voievod il arata stand pe scaun,piciorul stang inainte, cel drept inapoi, cu carja patriarhala, in exercitiul functiei. Nu e Zeus. Ca urmare adoratia fata de Traian de pe columna era o aiureala, nici vorba sa aiba vreo importanta (Traian nu era de os domnesc) sau sa se supuna cineva. De aceea cred in existenta tribului in 168 (victo voloke). Voievodatul Walahiei e deci strict personal, fondat in Ardeal, bazat pe descendenta din profeti ONLY; deduc ca s-a transmis prin Clara de Dobaca din Ardeal la fam. Basarab in Muntenia si apoi s-a intors prin casatorii in familii unguresti si la familia de Windsor.
Nici poveste de democratie militara, alegeri sau alte mofturi democratice sau populare, nimic simpatic. Doar cultul moastelor, care continua si azi ne da o idee despre atmosfera -totusi-apasatoare din Dacia.
Deci Beowulf, Cantecul Nibelungilor, toate sagele sunt despre regii geti - de-ai nostri, descendenti din Decebal (nu sunt stramosii mei, caci eu sunt neam de taran nu de profet). Avem tot panteonul si mitologia dacilor(getilor) conservate.
Vazand barele de aur (moneda voievodala) de la muzeul din Cluj, deduc ca institutia voievodala nu a disparut cu ocupatia romana, dimpotriva.( Odin-descendent din Decebal, si-a numit fiul Wodan. A se vedea ce-i cu Gepizii de la Jordannes ....)
1. Stampila cu cei 3 LARS(http://download.academic.ro/muzeu/lingou-1.jpg)
2. Pe aceeasi stampila (http://download.academic.ro/muzeu/lingou-1.jpg):
"Lus famus
Obrisic"
Pe care o traduc "stralucitul si faimosul Obrisicä" (din Obreja).
Atentie: Ovatiile se termina cu un semn (zodiacal ! ) nu e X ci un semn al soarelui
3. Cealalta(http://download.academic.ro/muzeu/lingou-3.jpg):
"
.........
.........
HODIGNA
"
pe care o consider chiar corespondent cu Hodina din româna moderna.
La Jordannes mai gasim niste foneme romanesti:
1. "Ansis" pe post de insasi, cand e vorba de secesiunea din 87 (dupa infrangerea lui Fuscus/Domitian). Eroii au devenit ei insisi (ansis) voievozi - adica Gapt, preferatul lui Jordannes, fondatorul casei Amal s-a declarat independent.
2. Gluma cu gepizii(caepizii la alti autori)-ardelenii sunt mai lenti- e inca o proba de romana neaosa.
3. Vizigotii - gotii de vaza;
4. Ostrogotii - lustra-gotii - gotii stralucitori - inca 2 foneme ("lus"-(rom. lustruit) de pe bara de la muzeu confirma ultima fonema).
Limba "daca" e deci dupa toate aparentele f. apropiata de romana moderna; toponimicele sunt mai vechi decat limba vorbita de daci, de aceea suna atat de ciudat; am putea incerca sa analizam fonemele care apar in toponimicele de interes cronologic. Propun:
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Actual Saga nordica
======================================
Vlaha Walhalla
Voda Wodan
Hodi(g)na Odin
Valah Hwala
Tautzi Taetwa
Sascäu(Sascut,Saschiz) Seskef
Halmeag(Halmasan) Halmal, Hulmul
Vatra Hatra
=======================================
NOTA Numele proprii in Ardeal se formeaza pornind de la localitate (Ion Bäcilä din Baci).
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Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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duci
Forum Admin
173 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2006 : 18:10:17
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Selectez de pe columna ipostazele in care apar relicvariile dacilor (casute de pitici) - de cautat in clasici citatul corect pentru "..cu zeii lor pitici"
Observati va rog ca aceste casute au ferestre mult prea mari pentru antichitate si au acoperisul din scanduri (ca sa nu avem nici o indoiala) ...
Referinte
Scuze pentru imagini, sunt scanate din cartea lui H. Daicoviciu "Dacii" si imprumutate de pe site-ul:
http://www.mcmillan.ca/~trajan/
- poate facem rost de cateva mai acatarii
Cred ca astfel am dovedit ca exista o coincidenta intre neamul dacilor si al gotilor. Daca termenul "daboget" (http://soltdm.tripod.com/) se confirma, nici macar nu e vorba de vreo contardictie.
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Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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duci
Forum Admin
173 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2006 : 06:44:28
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The Sinaia plates- a bad taste joke
Antiquity Vol 79 No 303 March 2005 Article number 79006
"A possible Dacian royal archive on lead plates" by Aurora Petan
The subject are a set of objects, previously described in literature (e.g. M. Gramatopol, "Dacia Antiqua", Albatros, Bucharest 1982).
Fig. 1 seems to be an oracle, where only the Triskelion(Aureolon) constellation is drawn ...
In fig. 2 the author is holding a plate with a text labeled with
"Dacian victorious soldiers and roman prisoners are received by priests at the gate of the Sarmizegetusa fortress"
which reads in a fair actual Transylvanian dialect of Romanian
"Ducipal (the horse of Alexander the Great), from your tower convey this card for the price of 2 pennys I have given to you, bring me peace and also a panther to you, have this for a surprise ..."
So, the author didn't read his own plates. It's a bad taste joke.
Transcript of text (ss for sh, tt for tz, greek o is read ä( for the palatal vowel a - like in the english word "the" read "zä"):
Daghibalä seä än turniu du cartä be doe zabie lie edä dattzä äe zaganä zarsse ghio sä tighio däe pantelä zä ne rumunä soprizä evsse zia älä eghetä sarmissetu säsäete ....
Parsing:
1. Daghibalä
2. seä än turniu
3. du cartä be doe zabie
4. lie edä dattzä äe zaganä zarsse ghio sä tighio däe pantelä
5. zä ne rumunä soprizä
6. evsse zia älä eghetä sarmissetu
7. ....
Reading :
1. Dachibala( not the king Decebalus, but the horse of Alexander the Great, Ducipal, seen here as a god - the constellation of the thracian knight) - is invoked to
2. from your tower
3. convey this card for the price of 2 'sabie'- engl. sword -no such money,
4. bring me peace and to you a panther !!!! (throughout the collection of plates the panther - suggested as patronym - see the hats of the soldiers ! - appears as pantelä - Mrs Petan is reading it pantelo on her web site!),
5. sa ne ramana sopriza - let it be a surprise (sorpriza -almost french "que ca reste une surprise" !)
6. in fiecare zi la Egedu' Sarmisetu ... - every day in SarmiEgedu (intentionally removed S from Seghedu otherwise SarmiSegetusa reversed)
7. .... an unidentified sequence follows (impossible in an original votive table)
The picture does not match the inscription but the label reads "Dacian victorious soldiers and roman prisoners are received by priests at the gate of the Sarmizegetusa fortress"
It appears that the author didn't read the text of the plate she's holding in her arms (fig. 2).
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Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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duci
Forum Admin
173 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2006 : 06:47:18
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Un avantaj al internetului este ca dispunem de operele clasicior fara multi intermediari suspecti. Jordannes (The Project Gutenberg eBook, The Origin and Deeds of the Goths, by Jordanes, Translated by Charles C. Mierow):
XVII ........ Should you ask how the Getae and Gepidae are kinsmen, I can tell you in a few words. You surely remember that in the beginning I said the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean, namely to Gothiscandza. One of these three ships proved to be slower than the others, as is usually the case, and thus is said to have given the tribe their name, for in their language _gepanta_ means slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because, as I have said, _gepanta_ means something slow and stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong, for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for quick movement of their bodies.
Nici vorba de o migratie cu 3 barci ale unui neam germanic de la capatul lumii care colonizeaza cele 3 tari romane (1 barca pentru fiecare tara) - asta e o anecdota.
In aceasta anecdota, miticii se intorc catre ardeleni, care sunt mai inceti la minte si in miscari si le zic peste umar: ge_piz ("what the heck" pe limba lor engleza), ceea ce pare sa se confirme si in ziua de azi. Iata o dovada ca fratia geto-gota folosea limba daca (romana) si obiceiurile actuale in varianta romana de azi. Acel repros arata ca ardelenii n-au fost si nu sunt migratori.
Deci:
- gepizi-ardeleni
- vizigoti-munteni
- ostrogoti - moldoveni
Aflam si anul separarii pe cele trei tari: 86- odata cu nimicirea lui Fuscus:
XIII...... They slew Fuscus, the commander, and plundered the soldiers' camp of its treasure. And because of the great victory they had won in this region, they thereafter called their leaders, by whose good fortune they seemed to have conquered, not mere men, but demigods, that is Ansis.
Deci Ansis=Insisi, eroii au devenit ei insisi voiervozi. Inca o dovada (pronumele, cuvantul Insisi) ca gotii foloseau o romana moderna.
Iata si motiv pentru care Traian a invins atat de usor atat in primul cat si in al doilea razboi. Motivul pentru care dacii nu apar in expunerea lui Iordannes si nu sunt vazuti cu ochi buni - el fiind pe directia Gapt.
XIV Now the first of these heroes, as they themselves relate in their legends, was Gapt, who begat Hulmul. And Hulmul begat Augis; and Augis begat him who was called Amal, from whom the name of the Amali comes. This Amal begat Hisarnis. Hisarnis moreover begat Ostrogotha, and Ostrogotha begat Hunuil, and Hunuil likewise begat Athal. Athal begat Achiulf and Oduulf. Now Achiulf begat Ansila and Ediulf, Vultuulf and Hermanaric. And Vultuulf begat Valaravans and Valaravans begat Vinitharius. Vinitharius moreover begat Vandalarius; Vandalarius begat Thiudimer and Valamir and Vidimer; and Thiudimer begat Theodoric.
Observati ca un stramos mai important dä numele clanului, Amal in cazul de fata. Deci nu e vorba de popoare migratoare ci de osti victorioase conduse de un viteaz din neamul cutare. Poporul ramane pe loc.
Povestea e importanta ca sa ne dam seama cum a fost posibil ca Traian sa se bucure de cooperarea dacilor in sudul Romaniei. Iata-l pe Gapt in fata unei cetati cu un singur turn (spirala 15c), [cum vom intalni (mai tarziu) si la Campulung la Curtea Veche - recuperat de o manastire] in spate podul lui Appolodor, si desigur tratativele. Costumul lui Gapt este diferit de la dacilor (ardelenilor).
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Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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duci
Forum Admin
173 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 16:10:07
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"In the land of Scythia to the westward dwells, first of 33
all, the race of the Gepidae, surrounded by great and
famous rivers. For the Tisia flows through it on the
north and northwest, and on the southwest is the great
Danube. On the east it is cut by the Flutausis, a swiftly
eddying stream that sweeps whirling into the Ister's
waters. Within these rivers lies Dacia, encircled by the 34
lofty Alps as by a crown." Jordannes:V
(The Project Gutenberg eBook, The Origin and Deeds of the Goths, by Jordanes, Translated by Charles C. Mierow
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/14809 : V)
The name of the river should be Plautausis (i.e. in modern Romanian 'plutashi', eng. raftsmen).
Indeed, this river which today starts in the mountains as Bistritza and later as Siret down to the Danube was used by raftsmen until 1969 to convey timber down to Danube and therefore may be taken as "Plutashi">>Plauta(u)si(s), the border of Gepidia with Caucoensi.
According to a decent map derived from Ptolemy (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/macedonia_1849.jpg) the
name of this river is "Cogaeonus", i.e. a name related to the Getic sacred mountain Kogaion.
The term "koga" is used locally today as an insult for the strangers, foreigners (not in dictionaries); the official name is Neamtz(usually denoting a german; the word is actually formed starting from the root "neam"=stock), as an euphemism for foreigner, since today there is a small ucrainean community there; perhaps in antiquity Starbon(7:3:5) was told about the "Kogaionon" the border.
I am glad to learn that the toponimic transcripted by Jordannes was in fact genuine Romanian (i.e. Wallachian), as with Galtis on "Auha".
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To float is spelled "a pluti" in modern Romanian but may be archaical "a fluti" also, as "flotter" in french (as in english to float). |
Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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duci
Forum Admin
173 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 16:12:01
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Dupa Jordannes (XVII,99) in Latina:
Is ergo missis legatis ad Ostrogotham, cuius adhuc imperio tam Ostrogothae utrique quam Vesegothae, id est, eiusdem gentes populi subiacebant; inclusum se montium queritans asperitate, silvarumque densitate constrictum : unum poscens e duobus, ut aut bellum sibi, aut locorum suorum spatia praepararet. Tunc Ostrogotha rex Gothorum, ut erat solidi animi, respondit legatis, bellum se quidem talem horrere, durumque fore, et omnino scelestum armis confligere cum propinqis, loca vero non cedere. Quid multa? Gepidae in bella irruunt, contra quos, ne nimii iudicarentur, movit et Ostrogotha procinctum, conveniuntque ad oppidum Galtis, iuxta quod currit fluvius Aucha, ibique magna partium virtute certatum est; quippe quos in se et armorum, et pugnaei similitudo commoverat. Sed causa melior, vivaxque ingenium iuvat Gothos : inclinata denique parte Gepidarum, proelium nox diremit. Tunc relicta suorum strage, Fastida rex Gepidarum properavit ad patriam, tam pudendis opprobriis humiliatus, quam fuerat elatione erectus. Redeunt victores Gothi, Gepidarum discessione contenti, suaque in patria nostri in pace versantur, usque dum eorum praevius existeret Ostrogotha.
In franceza:
Il se plaignait de ce qu'il était enfermé dans d'âpres montagnes et resserré par d'épaisses forêts, et lui demandait de deux choses l'une: ou de se préparer à la guerre, ou de lui céder une partie de ses terres. Alors Ostrogotha, roi des Goths, avec la fermeté de caractère qui le distinguait, répondit aux envoyés qu'une telle guerre lui faisait horreur assurément; qu'il lui serait dur, qu'il regardait comme un crime d'en venir aux mains avec ses proches; mais qu'il ne cédait point de terres. Que vous dirai-je? Les Gépides courent aux armes : pour qu'on ne les crût pas les plus forts, Ostrogotha marcha contre eux. Les deux armées se joignirent devant la ville de Galtis, au pied de laquelle coule le fleuve Aucha. Là, on combattit avec un grand courage des deux parts, car des deux parts étaient les mêmes armes et la même manière de combattre; mais les Goths furent aidés par la bonté de leur cause et par un génie plus vif. L'armée des Gépides finit par plier, et la nuit termina le combat. Alors, abandonnant les cadavres des siens, Fastida, roi des Gépides, retourna précipitamment dans son pays, autant humilié par cette honteuse défaite qu'il avait été enflé d'orgueil auparavant. Les Goths reviennent vainqueurs, joyeux de la retraite des Gépides; et tant que vécut leur chef Ostrogotha, les nôtres demeurèrent en paix dans leur pays.
- In esenta ostrogotii(din Muntenia) au fost atacati de gepizi (Ardeleni) si lupta s-a dat la Galtis pe fluviul Autha.
- Localitatea care se potriveste cel mai bine este Galati, sat de langa Fagaras-pe Olt (Alutus, Aluta) care de prin 1980 a devenit un cartier al Fagarasului.
- In afara castelului din centrul orasului Fagaras (sec XIII) mai este o fortareata mai veche in dealul Galatiului care corespunde semnificatiei strategice antice a locului.
- Deasemenea conflictul pentru tara Fagarasului pare a fi real, aceasta regiune ramanand sub suveranitate munteana pana la finele sec. XIV si apoi din 1918 pana in zilele noastre.
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Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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Linia gotica
