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duci
Forum Admin
173 Posts |
 Posted - 02/16/2007 : 01:58:47
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Sarmisegetusa. This town didn't exist before thge Roman conquest. Some Sarmisegetusa Regia was founded as a provincial capital. They used this name in a triumphalist mode.
My theory. The name is formed of two parts: Sarmi-salted river and Segetusa-confluence:
1. Sarmi. Since north Transylvania his many salted sites, along the Somes river (SAMUS/SARMUS in antiquity)>> Sarmi. In today Transylvania there are 4 Somes (Samus/Sarmus) rivers and the localities Saliste,Sarata, Saratura, Saratel, Sarateni, Sarile, Sarmas(5), Sarmasel, Sarmasag, 13 total. The diminutives are necessary in order to distinguish the various sources. We have not found (yet) Sargetel, Sarmagel or Sarmagâta (we look at Trajan's Sargetia). It seems that Sarmagâta was renamed to Sânmarghita. Therefore, Sarmis should be a small river, passing near a salt deposit; Sargetia (the treasure revier in Dio Cassius) (maybe Sargâtza in today Romanian), a small river near the citadell (where the treasure was hidden) should be searched, but not a confluence of 2 salted rivers -it woud be depleted today.
Also, perhaps they meant the confluence of Somes but the combination Somes-seged didn't sound enough triumphalistic for Trajan.
Let us continue with the “siget”(Sighet) word. It denotes a confluence :
[list]
Szeged in Hungary : confluence of Mures and Tisa
Sighisoara (small confluence): confluence of Tarnava Mica and Shes
Sighetu Marmatiei: confluence of Tisa and Iza
Sighetu Silvaniei (near Zalau): confluence of Crasna and Zalau
Sighii (plural of siget, called SIBIU on maps- an incompetent alteration of the original romanian name), many affluents of the Cibin river
Thus, we get from old Roman sources the word SIGHET in dacian, suggesting that today romanian is actually close to old dacian.
There are four Somes rivers in Transylvania: the Grand, Small, Warm and Cold.
Therefore, we have 3 hypothesis for the confluence of then two Sarmis/Somes :
1. Near DEJ (confluence of Grand Somes/Sarmis with Small Somes/Sarmis). We know that Trajan destroyed the Dacian citadel and build a Roman Castrum. No convincing traces were found however near Dej.
Grand Somes/Small Somes Siget at Dej
2. Confluence of Warm Somes with Cold Somes at Gilau. One also has a smaller river passing by, called today Sarata which may be the antic Sargetia where Decebal hided his treasure. There is an old stone fortress nearby, (between Vlaha (see King Hwala) and Tau#355;i (see King Taetwa) ) called "Cetatea Fetei" - uninvestigated archeologically, perhaps assigned to another Romanian hero, Voievod Gelou, beatten by hungarians in 895. However, there is a Roman castrum founded in 106 AD by Trajan there. See the above post about the royal tumuli there.
The huge treasury found by Trajan could consist in looting the royal tombs in the Vlaha Valley, since it is known that Goths were buried with their whole fortune.
Moreover, the nearby village Vlaha suggests a matrix of old Transylvanian voyevodate. This corresponds then to the 'Sarmizegetusa' place described by Dio Cassius for the last Dacian resort.
Satellite view of the Vlaha site
The remains of "Cetatea Fetei" - the citadel of the last fight
At Dabâca, at 30 km away of both Cluj-Napoca and Gilau another fortress, also assigned to Gelou may be found,.
We mention that in Transylvania (family) names are formed starting with the village of origin while surnames are given. Thus, Ioan Giloan is John from Gilau and Ioan Calborean is John from Calbor. Thus Gelou may be the family name of the IX-th century hero. BUT, for Dabâca, the name of the natives is formed as Däbalä. Thus we get the origin of the name of the last Dacian King and his village, which ressembles to Decebalus. (I encountered such a contraction of sounds personally: Gordes from Gheorghies, because the special group Ghe - or Dece in our case- is negligently pronounced. Dabaca was a county ( mark) until 20th Century. Many Dabaca (Dobokan) princesses marrieed in Wallachia.)
When Decebalus lost the fortress, he left, but was captured by Romans at 60 km away at Porolissum, i.e Moigrad today. This would’nt be possible with the Roman army at Hunedoara at 300 km away in south. Therefore we believe having indicated the proper location of Decebal’s last fight.
Dabâca always had an important administrative role, including in the middle ages, when it was center of a comitate (county). While the antic water pipe is still functioning today, there is no Somes-Sighet there and no salted water neither. It might be the village of origin of Decebalus. i.e. both Decebalus and Gelou mastered both Gilau and Däbâca citadels, separated by 30 km.
Some walls remained from the Dabaca Castle
Both sites, have a small river called Luna (Moon), the Downstram Luna and Upstream Luna, which are carving the citadell in a hill under the shape of a half-moon. Further similarities are expected.
Thus my hypothesis is that ‘the last fight’ happened near Cluj-Napoca, at Vlaha which is a very populated area. Chances to find huge treasuries or artefacts are scarce because of looting (see the previous posts). However, the History Museum there may supply lot of encouraging evidence.
I have advanced my hypothesis in february 2006, which was published in June 2006.
In september 2006, by chance a huge site was dismntled at Floresti, Q.E.D.
Therefore for an interested observer : Decebalus == Dabala (from Dabaca), Bicilis == Bacila, Sarmi-segetusa=confluence of 2 sarmis(Samus>>>Somes) rivers makes sense today also.
The history museum in Cluj has two massive gold bars (talants) with some stamps.
The scarce written indications are written in Romanian and they seem to conserve the old Woyevodal institution - see the Woyevode=baSILeus on the throne - (photos taken by me in the window of the museum):
which reads:
"LUS FAMUS OBRISIC" , i.e. "shining and famous Obrisic" in old but intelligible Romanian (LUS >>> lustru; FAMUS >>> faimos). In the right, the mark of a baSILeus.
Another inscription contains the word "HODIGNA" which means rest in Romanian:
Moreover, with some method we may further analyse Romanian phonems in Jordannes Getica :
anses---însisi =themselves
ge-pids--- ce piz ... =an insult
Tautis-tau=a small river source
vizigoths---vaza-goths = outstanding goths
ostro-goths--- lustra goths= shining goths.
The misterious Galtis on Autha (Alutus) may be found as a suburb of the Fagarash town (scarce antic artefacts were found on the indicated hill). Note that according to Jordannes Alutus (today Olt) is the frontier between the two kingdoms. Today's fortress is on the gepid side(north). The antic one is south of Alutus (Olt) :
It seems that the gepid capital was located near Cluj also. (http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/chk/chk04.pdf p 162):
"The family of Ardaric, King of the Gepidae, establishes a burial ground along the Somes river, at Apahida near Cluj, after the Goths are routed (Jord. Get 264). As victors and as heirs of the Hun power, the Gepidae are granted "peace" by the Imperium Romanum, i.e., the eastern Roman Empire and the annual payments due to an ally. A relic of these events was found in Ardaric's grave (I. grave in Apahida), a gold fibula. This brooch clasped a paludamentum (military cape) - a gift from the Roman Emperor. Ardaric's gold rings are also imperial gifts, one of them inscribed with the abbreviation: O M H A R V S (Optimus Maximus Hunnorum Ardaricus Rex Votum Solvit).... "
Jordannes-Getica, 285:
" But Thiudimer, the elder brother, crossed the river Savus with his men, threatening the Sarmatians and their soldiers with war if any should resist him. "
The fight took place on the Nedao River (http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/chk/chk04.pdf p 162)
Traditionally, it was thought that Savus(Sava) is an affluent of Danube(Nadao ???) in Pannonia.
However, Nadas, an affluent of Samus exists near Cluj and the localization o fthe fight near the gepid capital makes more sense(Samus instead of Savus and Nadash for Nadao).
With regard to the Vlachs in Macedonia, they seem to belong to the same seed as the Romanians (Vlachs=Walach and so).
Please observe that before the turkish conquest of Constantinopole, Vlaherne was the imperial quarter there. The Holy Virgin's cloth was put in the cathedral of Vlaherne in the 4-th century and so on.
Therefore Walach or Vlach should not have a pejorative meaning.
Presence of slavians in Balkan peninsula should also not supress the preeminence of Valachs (Romanians) south of Danube in the antiquity and middle ages (the Moscopole massacre is an example).
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Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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duci
Forum Admin
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 02:07:02
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Please do not forget (for reference purposes) the Niebelungen Lied (events in the V-th century CE) and the heroic presence of Valachs through the entire Middle Ages (even when Germany didn't exist and Hungary was occupied by turks):
APUD: http://www.blb-karlsruhe.de/blb/imag...n/jpg/052v.jpg
and http://www.blb-karlsruhe.de/blb/blbh...i-52v-53r.html
________________________________________ ______
1365,3 nic witiv schar
1365,4 da si ir frowen fvnden si fvren vrolichen dar
1366,1 ))V((on Rvzzen vñ von Chriechen reit da vil manic man
1366,2 Polanen vñ Vlachen den sah man ebene gan
1366,3 ir pferit vñ ros div gvten da si mit chreftin riten
1366,4 swaz si site habeten d/er wart vil wenich iht v/er\miten
1367,1 Von dem lande vz Chyewen reit ovch da manic man
1367,2 vñ die wilden Pescenære da wart des vil getan
1367,3 mit den bogen schiezen zen vogelen die da flvogen
1367,4 ir pfile si vil sere mit chraft vnz an die wende zvogen
1368,1 Ein stat bi Tvonowe lit in Osterlant
1368,2 div ist geheizen Tvlme da wart ir sit bechant
1368,3 vil manic site vremde den si nie da vor gesach
1368,4 si enpfiengen da genvge den leide sit von ir geschach
1369,1 ))V((or Ezele dem richen ein gesinde reit
1369,2 vro in hohem mvote hobesch vñ ovch gemeit
1369,3 wol vier vñ zweinzech fvrste/n\ rich uñ her
1369,4 daz si ir frowen sêhen da von negerten si niht mer
1370,1 Der herzoge Ramunch vzer Vlâchen lant
1370,2 mit sibenhund/er\t mannen chom er fvr si gerant
1370,3 sam die wilden vogele so sah man si varn
1370,4 do chome d/er\ fvrste Gibeche mit vil h/er\lichen scharn
1371,1 Hornboge d/er\ snelle wol mit tvsint man
1371,2 kerte vonme kunige gein sin/er\ frowen dan
1371,3 vil lvte wart geschallet nach des landes siten
1371,4 von den Hunin magen wart ovch da sere gerite/n
1372,1 Do chom von Tenemarche d/er\ chvene Hawart
1372,2 uñ Irinch d/er\ starche vor valsche wol bewart
1372,3 vñ Irnfrit von Dvri/n\gen ein fverste lobesam
1372,4 die enpfiengen Chriemh' als ez ir eren wol gezam
1373,1 mit zwelf hund/er\t mannen die hetens in ir schar
1373,2 ovch chom d/er\ herre Bloedelin mit tusint helden dar
1373,3 d/er\ Etzelen brvod/er\ vz d/er\ Hunin lant
1373,4 d/er\ ilte mit den sinen da er die kuniginne vant
1374,1 ))D((o chom d/er\ kunic Ezele vñ ovch herre Dietrich
1374,2 mit allen sinen degenen da was vil lobelich
1374,3 manic ritter edele biderb vñ gvot
1374,4 des wart d/er\ chvniginne ein teil gesenftet d/er\ mvot
1375,1 Do sp/ra\ch vo/n\ Bechelaren d/er\ herre Rvdeger
1375,2 frowe ivch wil enpfahen hie d/er\ kunic her
1375,3 swen ich iv rate chvssen daz sol sin getan
1375,4 iane mvgt ir niht geliche grvzen <alle> skuniges man
1376,1 Do hvp man von dem moere die kunigi/n\ne her
1376,2 Ezele d/er\ riche enbeite ovch do niht mer
1376,3 er stvnt von sinem rosse mit manigem chvnen man
1376,4 man sah in vroliche gein Chriemh' gen
1377,1 Zwen fvrsten riche als vns daz ist geseit
1377,2 bi d/er frowen giengen vñ habten ir div kleit
1377,3 do ir d/er\ kunic Ezele hin begegene gie
1377,4 da si den fursten edele mit chusse gvtlich enpfie
1378,1 Vf rihte si ir geben
The 'goths' were in fact Gets, i.e. Dacians,Valachians, etc, whatever. See:"De Origine et Actibusque Getarum" by Jordannes and "De Bello Getico"
Various invasions, including the hungarian and tartarian ones, ended in known alliances (marriages), various pecuniar arrangements, vasality, ransom, exiles, not extermination of pesants and shepherds nor in linguistic achievments of the shepherds such as suggested hungarian toponimiscs. It is impossible to teach a Romanian (Valachian) shepherd toponimics in a diferrent language.
Yva Momatiuk and John Eastcott
National Geographic, vol 159, No. 1, p. 104, January 1981
"When these so-called mountain lovers took the hale- meadows –away, some older shepherds died from sorrow”, my old Fanek Szlaga told us. His bold, dark face brings to mind Wallachian shepherds who came here in olden times, following the Carpathians range. Their pastoral methods, ustensils, vocabulary, and music survived centuries and shaped the life that Franek knew best. He recalled spring marches up the valleys with sheep, dogs, and music; he spoke of living in low huts, and the tang of cheese smoked over the fire. It was freedom, and he loved it. "
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Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2007 : 22:31:35
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Segeda - celtiberian fortress ( near Zaragoza ,Spain)
Segeda = ponderosa (spanish)
= powerful, rich , wealthy, effective,good
Also known as Sekeida.( Segetuza??)
Interesting words in protoceltic lexicon:
symmachia = alliance
Dago - good ( Dagae - Dacia = Good Land??)
Proto-Celtic: *dago- 'good' [Adjective]
Old Irish: dag-
Middle Welsh: da
Middle Breton: da- (OBret.), MBret. da
Cornish: da
Gaulish: Dago-marus [PN]
Also Sal/Sar - land, dirt
Mis(z) - Center
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History: Fact or Fiction? |
Edited by - Kalusharu on 08/26/2007 22:37:59 |
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 07:53:07
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Kogaionon/Kogaion - Muntele de Aur?
Asemanarea intre Kogaion(on) si japonezul kogane = aur !!!
Kogaionon - undeva in Apuseni? Rosia montana? Muntele gaina (gaionon?)?
Dupa cum vedeti ... multe semne de intrebare!
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History: Fact or Fiction? |
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 20:22:00
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SARMI SYZYGY TUSA
Syzygy (IPA: [#712;s#618;z.#618;.#676;i]) is a kind of unity, especially through coordination or alignment, most commonly used in the astronomical and/or astrological sense [1]. Syzygy is derived from the Late Latin syzygia, "conjunction," from the Greek #963;#973;#950;#965;#947;#959;#962; (syzygos), "yoked together."
" Let us continue with the “siget”(Sighet) word. It denotes a confluence " (yoked together)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syzygy (in relation with XP(chi ro) and Constantin) |
History: Fact or Fiction? |
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duci
Forum Admin
173 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 21:01:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalusharu
SARMI SYZYGY TUSA
Syzygy (IPA: [#712;s#618;z.#618;.#676;i]) is a kind of unity, especially through coordination or alignment, most commonly used in the astronomical and/or astrological sense [1]. Syzygy is derived from the Late Latin syzygia, "conjunction," from the Greek #963;#973;#950;#965;#947;#959;#962; (syzygos), "yoked together."
" Let us continue with the “siget”(Sighet) word. It denotes a confluence " (yoked together)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syzygy (in relation with XP(chi ro) and Constantin)
Excelent, multumesc inca o data. Cred insa ca trebuie sa luam "sighetus" ca provenind de la sighet si nu sighi-tusa.
Imi place ca sensul din latina si din lr sunt identice, "segetusa" noastra fiind aparent mai veche decat "late latin". Nu deranjeaza imprumutul eventual din greaca, deoarece gasim cuvantul in 6 toponimice romanesti actuale, care ar insemna un imprumut al l. grecesti din romana (pelasga) |
Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2007 : 20:36:45
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GET-BEGET
In turkish cet-becet from father to son, for generations, from one generation to another.
Pure transmission of...anything??
cet - forefather
http://www.turkishdictionary.net/?word=cet&submit=Search
Is it possible the romanian Get-beget C->G ...wanted to show that romanians are descendants of the Getae ( Cetae - forfathers?)
Getae = Forfathers, Moshi, Stramosii
I have always felt that "ancient" history is nothing more than stories written sometime after 1000 ad.
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History: Fact or Fiction? |
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2007 : 21:23:39
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DAGAE / DACIA
dac/dag/ - mountain, big
Dagae, Dacian = Mountain people
dag- mountain (see Dagistan)
dagci(turkish)
mountain climber, mountaineer.
Did the turks name Dacia? |
History: Fact or Fiction? |
Edited by - Kalusharu on 09/08/2007 21:25:52 |
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2007 : 22:03:07
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MELEK - tc - ANGEL/ MESSANGER
ZAL MOLXE? |
History: Fact or Fiction? |
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 07:00:24
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ZAMOLXIS
SAMUEL
Gender: Masculine
Usage: English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, Biblical
Pronounced: SAM-yoo-el (English), SAM-yool (English) [key]
From the Hebrew name #1513;#1473;#1456;#1502;#1493;#1468;#1488;#1461;#1500; (Shemu'el) which could mean either "name of God" or "God has heard". Samuel was the last of the ruling judges in the Old Testament. He anointed Saul to be the first king of Israel, and later anointed David.
So ZAMOLXIS is SHEMUEL+XIS
SEMELE
Meaning unknown, possibly of Phrygian origin. In Greek mythology she was one of the many lovers of Zeus. Hera, being jealous, tricked Semele into asking Zeus to display himself in all his splendour as the god of thunder. When he did, Semele was struck by lightning and died, but not before giving birth to Dionysos. |
History: Fact or Fiction? |
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 07:17:40
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SAMI
Means "elevated, sublime, supreme" in Arabic.
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History: Fact or Fiction? |
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 18:44:42
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Thracian ZAMOL -Earth, russian - Zemlea
In this case Zamolxis - male deity equivalent to Gaya? |
History: Fact or Fiction? |
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 20:47:23
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Sarmizegetusa
SÉAGHDHA - pronounced ZEGHEDA?
Gender: Masculine
Usage: Irish
Possibly means "admirable" or "hawk-like" in Gaelic.
ALSO... FAIRY FORT
The personal name 'Seghdha' seems to mean 'dauntless' or 'steadfast,' and it has also been suggested that the name comes from the same Old Irish root as the word for 'hawk,' yeilding the connotation 'hawk-like.'
Persian elements shahr "city"
SHAHRIAR m Iranian
Means "lord" in Persian.
SHAMIRA f Jewish
Means "guardian, protector" in Hebrew.
SHARMA m Indian
Means "protection, comfort, joy" in Sanskrit.
SHEKHAR m Indian
Means "crest, peak" in Sanskrit.
( Sheicaru ??)
SHAKTI-Means "power" in Sanskrit. In Hinduism a shakti is the female counterpart of a god. The name Shakti is used in particular to refer to the female counterpart of Shiva.
SARMISEGETUZA - SHARMI+SHAKTI = POWERFUL PROTECTION ( temple of Zamolxis? ) |
History: Fact or Fiction? |
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duci
Forum Admin
173 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 12:14:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalusharu
GET-BEGET
In turkish cet-becet from father to son, for generations, from one generation to another.
Pure transmission of...anything??
cet - forefather
http://www.turkishdictionary.net/?word=cet&submit=Search
Is it possible the romanian Get-beget C->G ...wanted to show that romanians are descendants of the Getae ( Cetae - forfathers?)
Getae = Forfathers, Moshi, Stramosii
I have always felt that "ancient" history is nothing more than stories written sometime after 1000 ad.
Apart the matches with Turkish, which should share with Romanian a common Thracian background, my feeling is that on the contrary, the issues we are approaching are much older with say 1000 years. I think of the Romanian folklore which does not appear that new.
In fact Christianism and mainly catholicism made everything after Jesus, i.e. after 1 AD. Moreover Marxism also induced the feeling that Roman sclavagism was a rule. Hence the bad dating of events after the Dacian wars.
I believe Dacian wars were just an episode in Romanian history.
The war between the Gepids and Ostrogoths in 242 AD shows that the reconquista of Dacia was done much before the Roman retrait. The Marcomanic wars (168AD) would be a better estimate. |
Prof.Dr. D. Ciurchea
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Kalusharu
Starting Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2007 : 06:58:43
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Dacia - DAX?
audacity
1432, from M.L. audacitas "boldness," from L. audacis gen. of audax "brave," but more often "bold" in a bad sense, from audere "to dare, be bold."
It is possible that Dax to be short for AuDax -
Dacia - Country of the bold?the brave? |
History: Fact or Fiction? |
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About gets/goths, Valchs
